Neuroscience in the workplace

How can neuroscience be leveraged to enhance the workplace? How can brain research help us increase motivation, implement positive change, and grow inclusion?

I had the pleasure of collaborating with Vanessa Deschênes of Ntuiva to discuss these questions and more in an episode of the Ntuiva podcast. Listen to the 30-minute podcast on this webpage, listen on Spotify, or read the text transcript.

Podcast

Transcript

Vanessa Deschênes (in French): Bienvenue au podcast Ntuiva. La où vous trouverez un heureux mélange entre les mondes des affaires, la science, et le bien-être. 

Leaders, entrepreneurs, scientifiques, chercheurs, et professionnels de la santé et du bien-être se succèderont pour partager leur secrets et leur connaissances sur le fonctionnement du cerveau et ils vous livreront leurs meilleurs conseils pour conjuguer performance et équilibre de vie.

Mon nom est Vanessa Deschênes et je vous invite sans plus tarder à rencontrer mon invitée du jour.

Bonjour à toutes et à tous et bienvenue à ce nouvel épisode du podcast Ntuiva. Je suis comme habitude vraiment excitée de recevoir notre invitée du jour, mais d’abord vous le savez avec nos invité(e)s on parle souvent de se sortir de notre zone de confort et bien c’est moi qui va sortir de sa zone de confort ce matin parce que l’entrevue sera en anglais. Donc, je suis excitée mais un peu nerveuse. Mais je vais “walk the talk” comme on dit en anglais. Donc, je vais vraiment faire le saut.

Vanessa (in English): So without undue delay, I want to introduce you to our guest speaker today. She holds a PhD in neuroscience from McGill University. She has Honours in her Bachelor's in neuroscience and psychology from University of Toronto. She also has a certificate in diversity and inclusion from Cornell University.

And she's going to talk about that, but what's very interesting is that before she was a scientist, she was also an artist. So for me, I think it's a great combination science and arts. So I'm very excited to talk about that. And when I was preparing for the podcast, I was surfing on her website and I came across a sentence that I just loved.

So she said that she has a determination to build a world where we can all achieve greatness. Isn't it great, I love that. So I'm really excited to introduce you to Falisha Karpati. Falisha, hi, and welcome to the podcast. 

Falisha Karpati: Hi. Thank you so much for this opportunity. I’m looking forward to discussing with you. 

Vanessa: My pleasure. So you’re probably the best person to introduce yourself, maybe to fill us a little bit more about you and let us know what we're going to talk about today. As I said, you studied in neuroscience, you're also an inclusion consultant. So it's going to be interesting for the people to know, you know, what you're doing and why study in neuroscience.

Falisha: So right now I'm an inclusion consultant. I run my own independent consulting practice. And I work with organizations in a variety of different fields to help them assess and grow the equity, diversity and inclusion in their spaces. So, how does this connect with neuroscience as you mentioned before, I do have extensive background and training in neuroscience, and I bring that into my unique approach to inclusion.

So my approach centers on the interconnectedness of cognitive, demographic, and experiential diversity, meaning differences in how we think in compliment to differences in identity and experience. And I bring in research on how our brains learn, remember, build habits, and connect with others in order to facilitate inclusive spaces and in order to make sure that commitment and action towards inclusion lasts in the long term.

Vanessa: Wow. That sounds very interesting. Especially for me, like, I just love everything related to the brain, how it functions. I mean, it's so fascinating, right? Anyway, I'm so excited. So yeah, we mentioned neuroscience. Most people maybe don't know what neuroscience is. And I do know that there's some differences with neuroscience and neurology.

So can you maybe explain to us what it is? And why could it be useful in a corporate world? Like for organizations.

Falisha: Absolutely. So neuroscience is the study of the nervous system, including how the brain works and how the brain is built. And there's lots and lots of different areas of neuroscience. It's a really broad field.

It covers everything from microscopic processes at the level of one cell. All the way up to how the brain impact social processes at the societal level, but it's really important to differentiate neuroscience and neurology. I do see the two confused sometimes. 

So neurology is a medical field related to diagnosis and treatment of brain-related medical conditions, while neuroscience is a research field. So if you are experiencing dizziness or headaches, you might see a neurologist. And if you would want to leverage brain research to enhance your organization, you would approach a neuroscientist. So a neurologist would have a medical degree, an MD, whereas a neuroscientist would have a research degree, like a PhD. And some people have both, and do both neurology and neuroscience, but a lot of people also do one or the other. So it's really important to know that distinction. 

Vanessa: And would you say it's something new? What I mean by that is that it seems like neuroscience might be a new field. Like 10 years ago we were talking more about psychology, how to introduce psychology concepts into businesses and organizations. And now the term neuroscience seems to be more and more used again. It might be just my perception, but I was wondering, what do you think about that?

Falisha: I completely understand where that sentiment is coming from. It does feel like it's quite new and it does have to do with the technology aspect. So interest in the brain and research into the brain has been going on for lots and lots of time. But it's really only been in the more recent times where the technology is such that we can investigate the brain at a level of accuracy and a level of detail that can tell us so much more information.

So there's lots of neuroimaging technologies out right now. For example, magnetic resonance imaging, or MRI, and now there's, there's seven Tesla MRI. So the higher the number of Tesla, that means the more detail we can see into the brain. And we can look at all of the different parts in terms of how they're built. And we can look at brain activity while people are doing different things. So what areas of the brain are being activated. And the more that we're able to do that, the more we're able to understand what brain areas are involved in different types of tasks, what brain structure differences are present in people who have different personalities or different types of experiences. So that's what my PhD research was on - people with different types of training have different brain structure. So dancers and musicians have some different structure compared to people that don't do either.

So by learning all of these different, new things about the brain, we can use more applications as well. So you had mentioned before so how can we apply this in corporate organizations? And those possibilities are endless and they just keep growing with the advances in technology. Brain science really can be brought into many different aspects of an organizations.

So I can give a few examples to start off. One of my passions and something I do quite often right now is training, and understanding how our brains learn and focus can help us design more effective training and meeting structures. We can make events that people are excited to participate in and will actually remember what was discussed and be able to use that later on. So for example, when we learn information and when we learn how to do something, that happens through different processes in the brain. So if you want somebody to be able to go through, let's say a coding process on a computer or a service process in a store, active practice is going to engage those brain areas whereas just reading instructions on how to do it won’t.

Vanessa: And I guess we're talking about hybrid work right now, you know, because of the pandemic. So I assume that neuroscience can also help understand, you know, what's the difference between if you learn in person or if it's virtual, that kind of stuff.

Falisha: Absolutely. And brain research on how we connect with each other is really important too, because connecting in-person and virtually both have a lot of advantages, but it's important that we understand how the brain processes these different types of information. So when you see somebody online, it's quite different than when you see them in person, you don't have as many nonverbal cues, you don't have physical cues.

So the way that communication is then processed in the brain is quite different to an in-person where you see you see an entire body, there’s some physical cues you can move around relative to each other. It just, there's a lot more information that you can have there. 

Vanessa: Interesting. So that's one example. Do you have other examples?

Falisha: Definitely. So one thing that's really important to a lot of organizations is motivation of team members and rewarding team members. And we can integrate research on the brain's reward processing system so that we can make recognition and performance evaluation procedures that keep people motivated.

So we know that anticipation of reward can actually be more beneficial for the brain than reward itself. So giving rewards on an unpredictable schedule can help maintain motivation. You might notice that if you're playing a game on your phone, for example, or going to a casino, you don't win every time, you don't get a reward every time. And that's kind of what makes it exciting. And that's because you're rewarded for anticipating the reward. That keeps you going. And then when you actually win, well, you might stop. You might not, it's different for everybody, but okay you kind of got what you came for and then you're done. We can integrate that into the workplace too.

So for example, if there's a manager that is stopping by each team member's desk or virtual space at the same time every morning to tell them how great they are. That's probably very well intentioned and I'm sure it's well received. But that's not really going to help motivation because it's so predictable that team members don't feel any need to do anything [to get the praise]. You're not anticipating a reward and know what's coming. So that anticipation of the reward system in the brain, that's not activating. 

But if the manager instead would randomly visit each team member once or twice a week to give them some praise and motivating conversation - that would work better because the team members don't know when it's going to happen, they don't necessarily know how often it's going to happen. And there's more feeling of like I have to do well, I have to put my best efforts in, in order to get that reward. 

Vanessa: Very interesting. And would you say that having a yearly performance evaluation is not motivating because it's kind of predictable?

Falisha: For the example that I gave before, the goal is simply to motivate the team members and doing it on that predictive schedule is not going to accomplish that goal. Whereas if you have your yearly performance evaluation, perhaps the goal might be different and the stability may be beneficial for that goal.

Vanessa: I see. And I assume we can also use neuroscience for change management could that be useful?

Falisha: Definitely. The way that habits are formed in the brain can help inform change management strategies.

So for example, our habits are formed within larger contexts and larger procedures. We associate behaviour with surrounding environments and what we normally do in those kinds of environments. So if you want to make a change to a specific behaviour, it can help to also make changes to the broader environment.

So an example that sometimes comes up in my inclusion work is changing some aspects of meeting structures. So let's say that you have a team meeting that's always at the same time in the same location in person or virtual, and you follow the same agenda every time. And you always end with a brainstorming session that has exactly the same format.

The participants of the meeting will have a learned chain of behaviours that go with it. So they go into the meeting area at a specific time. They contribute at certain parts of the meeting and they know when they're expected to contribute. Maybe they zone out at another part of the meeting because they know what's coming, and it’s less relevant to them.

And then they do their brainstorming session and it all sort of goes together. So if you want to change your brainstorming format to make it more inclusive, it would be helpful to surround that with other change. Like, put the brainstorming session at the start of the meeting, hold the meeting in a different space or different virtual platform, maybe at a different time of day.

And by doing all of those changes, you're preventing the meeting participants from going through their learned chain. They have to sort of start from scratch and learn how to act in that new broader environment. So that can really help facilitate the format change or whatever smaller behaviour the change is intended for.

But of course it's really important that this is still planned in advance and communicated with everybody to make sure that everyone's on board and knows what's expected of them and knows that change is coming.

Vanessa: That's so interesting. So you mentioned that you're working within a specific field or area of expertise, inclusion and diversity.

But before we talk about that, I'm very curious to know why you decided to study neuroscience in the first place. Like I'm kind of interested to know why the little Falisha eventually said, you know, I want to study neuroscience.

Falisha: It is something that's sort of been with me ever since I was a kid. I was always very curious and I was especially fascinated about why people think and act the way that they do.

And especially where differences come from. Why do people have different thoughts and behaviours related to the same situation? So for example, why is skydiving a passion for some people and a complete nightmare for others? And why are some people interested in music while others are interested in science and others are interested in cooking and maybe some people interested in two of them or all three or something else completely.

And those differences are all related to the brain. Everything that we think and do it all goes through the brain at some point. So it all starts from there and our brains are so tightly linked to just who we are as individuals. And it's really this passion for understanding why we are, who we are. That's what led me to study the brain.

Vanessa: I love that. Like that curiosity is probably very important as a neuroscientist. And so you had that curiosity to focus on inclusion and diversity, which is, I think a subject that is getting more and more attention. Could you explain a little bit, why that's your area of expertise and why is it something that we should at least continue to talk about and to integrate into our organizations?

Falisha: For sure. So that does actually lead from what I was just talking about is that my fascination sort of with the individual and why we're different. Originally that led me to neuroscience, but there was always an element of embracing difference that was part of that curiosity and what drove me through my studies.

And personally for me as well, again sort of in childhood, I was introduced early on to the differences in ways of thinking and the need for individualized spaces. So I was identified as gifted very early on in childhood, and I had some different needs from others in my classes. And some of the strategies that were used to meet my needs really helped me to feel included. Like, you know, I kept some extra work at my desk in case I finished early. But there were some other strategies, while well-intentioned, they did make me feel a little excluded and separated from the class, like being physically taken out of the class to do a different test.

So at that point I realized that yes, we do have different needs. We have different ways of thinking. And there are some strategies that we can use to make sure that everybody can have their needs met, be set up for success, but also, still be part of the group and work with everybody and really feel like they belong and have differences seen as strengths and as unique characteristics that are cool and interesting and valuable as opposed to sort of being excluded because of them. 

And that experience came with me when I started working,  particularly in my training development and facilitation work. So that's something that I've been doing for a long time. I used to volunteer in outreach organizations, I did some workshop facilitation when I was a student as well. So I've been doing that for quite some time. And making sure that everybody had what they needed to learn best and creating safe spaces where participants felt comfortable to express their true selves and contribute honest ideas.That was always a priority for me. 

And this eventually led me into work, focusing on equity, diversity, and inclusion in a university environment. And this is where I worked more on policy change and more on the strategy side. And through that work, it became really evident that the policies and procedures, how we measure success and in general, just how we work and what we consider professional. It was designed by and for select privileged groups. And that doesn't allow for maximum success for everyone and collectively. So, this is where my passion and my skills and facilitating organizational level change really really grew.

Vanessa: So what you just mentioned for me is something that all managers eventually should take into account, right? To make sure that all your employees and, or even your colleagues, if you want to make sure that everyone, as you mentioned, achieve greatness as individuals, that's very interesting.

Falisha: For sure, and I think that the typical workplace, I mean every workplace is different, I'm just generalizing as an example. But when we do think about a typical workplace, you know, it's changed in the pandemic, but in general, where are people working? When are they working? What is expected of them in terms of method of work and who, who came up with that. Why are we doing it? 

And I think that reflection is so important. Are you doing something just because that's how it's always been done or that's what you were taught is professional. Are you telling somebody not to work in a certain way because it doesn't fit into what you were trained to think is professional, that happens a lot, and it really excludes a lot of innovative perspectives, a lot of multicultural perspectives. And we could really expand our success by being open to different ways of thinking and different ways of doing things. 

Vanessa: Yeah. And we're talking about individuals right now, but my understanding is that if we tackle diversity and what we also call sometimes cognitive diversity. I know that sometimes they say that it's the secret ingredient to collective intelligence, which means that if we do that, it's also a way to boost innovation for organizations, right?

So there's also a beneficial advantage for the organization. There is one for the individual, so they feel like you said included and that they can achieve greatness and stuff like that. But there's also benefits for the organization. Can you talk a little bit more about that?

Falisha: Yeah, so cognitive diversity, I'll define it first to make sure that we're all, we have a shared understanding of the meaning.

So cognitive diversity is the variation in how individuals perceive and process information. So how do people take in information? How do we learn and remember? How do we interact with others? How do we pay attention and what are we good at? What's interesting for us? And that can be different. Just anecdotally, based on our own experience, we can understand that those things are different across people. 

And when we use the term cognitive style that refers to one individual's ways of perceiving and processing information. So cognitive diversity refers to a group. Cognitive style refers to one person And your cognitive style influences what kind of work you like and are good at, and how you best work with others, what kind of environment is most comfortable and productive for you. And your cognitive style is associated with traits that you're born with and also those that you get through experience. And these characteristics are highly interconnected with each other as well. 

So what influences your cognitive style? That can include neurodiversity. So an individual can identify as neurotypical meaning having a style of cognitive functioning that falls within the dominant societal standards of typical or an individual can identify as neurodivergent meaning having a style of cognitive functioning that falls outside the dominant societal standards of typical, such as being autistic, dyslexic, gifted or high intellectual potential, or having ADHD or multiple. The factors also include innate dispositions for certain ways of thinking - so maybe you have a tendency to organize your thoughts and pictures or in words. Personality like introversion and extroversion, for example. Mental health. Values, beliefs and attitudes, as well as knowledge and skills that you acquire through school, family, work, community, cultural and spiritual practice hobbies, and any other experiences.

So all of those interconnected factors together gives you your unique cognitive style. And when we have individuals with a variety of different cognitive styles present in a team, that would be a cognitively diverse team. They have an increased range of skills present. There's more approaches and more perspectives that each bring a unique strength and they can address different aspects of a task or a project.

So if we consider an example of editing a written article. If you have a detail oriented thinker, they'll likely focus on grammar and word choice. Whereas if you also bring in a big picture thinker, they can focus on messaging and structure. And both are crucial for an article that's correctly written, well-organized, and engaging.Whereas if you only had one of those types of thoughts, then you might be missing the other one. 

The advantages of cognitive diversity are really highly connected with positive conflict, meaning disagreement or debate related to the task or problem. So when we have all those different perspectives, knowledge in different fields, different values - that can bring disagreement. It often does. And that on the surface might seem negative or scary or something that you want to avoid, but it's actually really productive when it's handled appropriately. Because it can lead to a greater amount of information being collectively considered in a discussion or a decision.

And when you have somebody challenging your ideas of bringing up something that's different, that leads to more critical thinking. Because everybody is prompted to then challenge ideas, justify their own ideas, really think about where it's coming from, think about the consequences. And we get fusion of different ideas. We take the strengths from everybody's individual perspectives and we fuse them into something creative, innovative, and new, which can also be more generalizable. So when you have perspectives of people with different ways of thinking, different identities, and different experiences, you can then create solutions products or anything else that's just more generalizable to a wider population. And will be things that more people will be interested in and want to use. 

Vanessa: I feel that we have so much to learn as individuals and also as organizations on those topics, I said in the introduction that you're a consultant in those areas. So what do you do? Like when you work with organizations, how do you help organizations implementing neuroscience or those techniques that you just talk about?

Falisha: So I offer three main services, assessment, strategy consulting, and training. So in an assessment service, I would see where your organization is at in terms of equity, diversity, and inclusion. And that generally includes a survey of team members, policy and procedure review, and focus groups. 

And I bring my research background into this. So all of my assessments are structured like a scientific study with data collection, statistical analysis, lots of data visualization to really help you see where your areas of strengths are and where improvement is needed in order to build fully inclusive spaces. 

So once we've collected the data and we know what areas need the most work, then we can move on to strategy development. So in that, we'll work on determining specific objectives, action items that are relevant to the objectives, that are feasible and that will last long-term and really create a long-term commitment and change within the organization. I also integrate implementation coaching within all of my strategy services, which means training everybody on the team, in why these things are important, what positive effects are they going to have, how do they actually implement them, and assisting with the change management along the way. 

And then in my training services which can be from one two hour workshop all the way to a longer training program with multiple series, multiple days. We learn about a variety of topics in the intersection of neuroscience and inclusion. So for example, cognitive diversity and how we can create cognitively inclusive spaces how bias happens in the brain, and how we can make our brains happy through inclusion and belonging.

Vanessa: I love that and I mean, let's face it. It's kind of cool to say that you're working with a neuroscientist, right? I don't know.

Falisha: I think so, I’m a little biased.

Vanessa: I think so too. That’s really great. I see, you know, time flies when you have a discussion on a subject that’s so fascinating, but I want to be respectful of your time, of the time of the people that are listening to the podcast. I usually like to end the podcast asking the guests a question about what could we wish you, you know, for the next years to come, you know, do you have a dream regarding your field of expertise or what's your vision or something like that?

Falisha: My vision is a world where all brains can thrive. Where all of our workplaces and all of our schools are inclusive, accepting of people with all brains, all identities, and all different types of experiences and where we can each bring our individual strengths to contribute to greatness. 

Vanessa: I love that. I even have like goosebumps when you say that. Oh, that's great. Well, thank you so much, Falisha for your time. And I'm going to put the links if people want to reach you, what you're doing. I think it’s very important and I hope that your vision is going to become reality. That would be awesome. 

Falisha: Thank you so much. I'll keep doing what I can to make sure it happens.